Ramblings and I mean ramblings about reading and writing...:)

[claudia603]

So, I do enjoy reading this blog on occasion called Pub Rants, from the point of view of an agent who has some bestselling author clients. She's very blunt and to the point about trends in publishing and what she/editors want and don't want. Anyway, I spent like 2 hours reading through the blog last night, because I hadn't really looked at it in a few years. To tell you the truth, usually reading these kinds of sites makes me a bit twitchy and uncomfortable, but yet I can't turn away.

For example, she makes all these lists of things that editors roll their eyes at as far as plot points in fantasy stories.

One of the reasons listed for why a SF&F book will get rejected at the query level is this:

Reason 2: SF&F stereotypical archetypes as the “hook”
--the mysterious object
--the unexpected birthright
--the quest
--the villain that has risen again
--exiled to another planet
--mayhem on spaceship to new planet
--Androids with heart of gold
--The main character as the key to saving the world or species
--the just discovered talisman

Um....isn't that not so much stereotypical archetype but Hero of a Thousand Faces archetype? What about that whole there are no new plots in the world? Isn't that what a lot of fantasy readers who fell in love with LOTR and Harry Potter and all its imitation fic really want? I know I am a SUCKER for a great quest story with mysterious objects and the main character who is sort of vulnerable needing to save the world plot device. I could read that scenario over and over. Now what's true is that there is a lot of poorly written crap that uses the above scenarios, both published and not. I would imagine that editors keep seeing the same soulless crap. AND this pubrants agent is also very quick to point out that ALL OF THE ABOVE would be accepted and sold if the story blew them away. For young adult novels, editors are rolling their eyes and rejecting stuff left and right because the market for vampires, zombies, werewolves, angels, and especially paranormal romance etc. is so over-saturated. Dystopian stories as well.

HOWEVER, at the same time these same editors acknowledge that teenagers (and middle-aged women, haha) are still buying these paranormal romance books like crazy. So if they KNOW that these plots are still selling like hotcakes, why on earth should their own weariness of seeing it stop them from publishing the ones that are decent (if not that original)? Most people, if they have a kink or plot point interest, are insatiable (like me with a good vulnerable main character and quest and mysterious object plot). AND don't all of us who read fan fic read and reread the same scenarios over and over again, as long as it hits our particular kinks? (like in LOTR -- fluff, mpreg, slave fic, Frood in trouble, Frodo/Sam romance, hurt/comfort, healing in the Undying Lands). And wouldn't you agree that if the fic hits your kink in the right way, that it doesn't have to be particularly brilliant as far as the writing goes? Now for me to read a kink/scenario/pairing I'm not as interested in, the writing needs to blow me away. That's a different issue. But if there's purple prose or a few annoying things in a fic that hits my kinks, I'm willing to look past it. Anyway, I've heard people say, "NO YOU CAN'T USE THAT MANY ADJECTIVES OMG BAD" or "NO PASSIVE VOICE EVER!!!" or whatever other things we learned in English grammar/writing class in high school/college about what is "bad writing" -- but then those same people might read Twilight and love it just because the story itself satisfies something in them.

Now I'm hearing whispers of this Fifty Shades of Gray, which this Pubrants person mentions on the first entry that you can see when you click on the link. I know NOTHING about it aside from it's supposed to be erotic and the book club ladies are eating it up. Have any of you read it? Someone on my flist posted a rant about it, how she's read way better fan fic erotica than that. Somehow I think that most of us here would agree with that. Anyway, apparently it's an example of writing that isn't that great hitting a particular kink that appeals to a lot of people and thus being wildly successful. And yes, the more you try to ban it from libraries, the more appealing it gets to people, I would think.

Anyway, this whole thing of seeing lists of plot trends on the way out and trends on the way in always puts me into a tiny bit of a tailspin because it's often stuff that I like or would like to write or am writing on the way out or oversaturated. Yes, of course I know you're not supposed to pay attention to trends and just write from your heart. So whatever, I'm not really worried about it. But it's still discouraging to hear that dystopian is on the way out, when I happen to enjoy that genre. I still want some more to be published so I can be blown away. Hunger Games ALMOST did that for me, but just not quite. I don't want the editors to stop publishing a certain trend just because they're bored with it.

Things I would want to read/write:

Modern day quest with mysterious object, mysterious birthright, vulnerable main character who must save the world (HEY, I did mention I'm insatiable with this plot, yes?)

A really awesome mermaid story

Horror but not with the gore, more just creepy and building in terror and somehow related to international travel, ala The Ruins by Scott Smith

Dystopian done really well.

Sorry, this was a bit of a disorganized ramble. Any thoughts to add?

Comments

[sophinisba]

Fifty Shades of Gray and its sequels used to be a Twilight AU fic! It's one of those situations where the author took the fic offline and then changed the names and reworked some other stuff and published it as original fiction. Its not about vampires or anything, just these people who are sort of like Bella and Edward and what's his name.

IDK, not really what I'm into but I say if people are enjoying a super erotic kinky story and the author's making a bundle with it more power to them!

[claudia603]

oooh, I had no idea it was originally Twilight fan fic! Heh, in that case, probably better written than the original? Not sure. But now I kind of want to read it...:D

[i-o-r-h-a-e-l.livejournal.com]

I definitely love a vulnerable main character. :D

[claudia603.livejournal.com]

*grin* Indeed! :)

[baranduin.livejournal.com]

I've read the first volume of Fifty Shades and I enjoyed it in a "boy is this bad" way. It started life as a Twilight fanfic, and you can tell. I started the second book (it's a trilogy of course) but got bored a little ways through and doubt I'll go back. It's making a mint. I love it that a fanfic writer successfully filed off the serial numbers and made a go of it.

[claudia603.livejournal.com]

Absolutely, more power to her. Wow, I hadn't known that it was Twilight fan fic.

[dreamflower]

Except it makes it harder for those of us who just want to enjoy writing fanfic for its own sake to answer well-meaning people who tell us "Oh, but you should try to get your stories published. You could just change the names!"

[baranduin.livejournal.com]

Can't say I agree with that at all. Nobody's stopping you from writing. Sadly there are always going to be well-meaning people who don't get it. But it's not any writer's responsibility to say, "oh, I better not, I'll ruin it for the others." Actually I think this is a good thing, it brings fanfic more, I dunno, respectability maybe though that's not right I don't care about that, I guess it brings it more mainstream and into the light. Which I know a lot of fanfic writers don't like, they like their little fantasy of it all being so subversive.

[claudia603.livejournal.com]

Yeah, that part doesn't bother me at all. I figure it's none of anyone's business how I spend my writing time. I see writing fan fic as sharing with friends (and anyone else who wants to read it) in a shared universe. I see writing original fic as general entertainment for anyone (not just friends or people that think like me) that would possibly have a financial feedback for me. *shrugs* If I thought any of my fan fic would come across well as original fic? I wouldn't have any problem doing what this author did. Frodo/Aragorn romance wouldn't translate so well with just names changed, lol, but you never know...!

I think that's a good point as to why fan fic writers don't like this bringing fan fic more mainstream. I can see that. I sort of feel that. Sort of like, hey this is MY private realm. Don't make it Hollywood! But I don't feel that emotionally attached one way or the other...

[dreamflower]

The truth is these "experts" DON'T know what's going to push people's buttons. Otherwise there would not be so many of these articles about "Wow, I would never have seen THIS coming!"

Tolkien wrote The Lord of the Rings because his publisher asked for a sequel to The Hobbit. But it was not at all the sort of "sequel" that Stanley Unwin was expecting. Yet he was patient with JRRT, allowing him to take his time through many false starts and in spite of the fact that it was (a) not a children's book and (b)full of things that no one had done before in quite that way while (c) including six of the eight things that the person above says are "bad". And it turned out to be the most influential book of the Twentieth Century.

Archetypes and tropes DO push people's buttons. Otherwise said archetypes and tropes would not become archetypes and tropes to begin with. They are what people WANT to read/watch.

And that's why the staples of fanfic, such as hurt/comfort and fluff and angst draw people in, even though they already know how the main story, the source story, plays out.

Agents and publishers need to get a clue.

That is, of course, if they want authors to continue to use their services-- what they provide is increasingly less relevant to writers who now have many other options for getting their stories "out there".

[claudia603.livejournal.com]

I agree with this! I think too often agents and editors go with their own personal tastes and literary elitism sometimes instead of what the people REALLY want. Another reason for that is that agents and editors have said (like on this blog in various places) that they feel like they have to REALLY love the fic they are representing. It can't be just, "Welll...this will probably sell a lot." It has to be "I LOVE this fic so much and I want the rest of the world to love it too so I will fight for it and hopefully it will sell alot." So that's a further complication. After all, agents and editors are gatekeepers, but they are also real people with a variety of tastes and kinks themselves. It's really a matter of getting your manuscript to an agent who is on your wavelength. *nods*

[cookiefleck.livejournal.com]

I find it really hard to believe that any publisher would turn away books that they thought were guaranteed sellers. And I really doubt that the YA market for dystopian/paranormal/fantasy tales is waning just yet.

I've always thought of fanfiction and escapism literature as "candy." Tastes good and is amusing (and occasionally reaches greater heights) but too much of it is not good. When I was younger, mystery novels were my "candy" reading. Now it's fanfiction (right now, Sherlock gen fic with Watson as the central character), and I probably read more than is good for me (rather than reading more mind-expanding literature), even though I love that I can find many stories that cater to my favorite plotlines and it's easy, quick gratification.

I personally am kind of taken aback by how many adults are reading YA novels and such. I get the feeling that is all some of the adults are reading. I feel like a luddite in saying this, but it seems as though "good" literature is taking too much of a backburner to the easy-to-digest-escapism stuff. I'm only concerned because publishers want to make money, after all, and I would hate to see quality literature crowded out of the market entirely.

[claudia603.livejournal.com]

I'm not sure the editors/agents are turning away the stories (that may or may not be good) that are guaranteed sellers per se, but more that lots of them are turning down the whole concept before they even read a portion of the manuscript, like when the author queries. Like if I wrote an agent and said, "So I wrote this story about a high school girl who falls in love with a vampire--" I can see the agent just throwing it aside and saying, "NEXT!" and not even giving it a chance because of that. Except for the one exception who gives it a try. Hehehe. Yeah, so it seems the world of book publishing is super duper confusing and subjective and really a lot on the whim of an agent's mood, etc.

I was once taken aback by the adults reading young adult novels myself, but I know several people who do. I very much respect people who read for escapism. I know I do, especially during the school year when I just don't want to think that hard while doing something "for pleasure." I figure, at least, that it's a step above watching the latest reality show (er...guilty of that, too!) And yes, it's great to expand our minds via real literature once in awhile (and yes, I think there will always be a market for that, since in fact it is so rare), but that's not where the biggest market is. I believe I read somewhere that literary fiction writers probably get the least advance for selling their work.

[cookiefleck.livejournal.com]

I have trouble explaining what concerns me because I haven't really sorted it out properly in my own mind. And as I said, I read fanfic, and I watch reality TV at times. And I go back and re-read childhood favorites at times, too, to recapture the feeling. I guess I could use the metaphor of a drug.. it's like an easy quick fix opiate -- which IMO is okay as long as one realizes it and, ideally, keeps it under control. There is so much "dumbing down" that goes on these days - TV... books... etc. - and I feel that we need to be aware of it, at least. There's a whole other world out there of ideas and intelligent stimulation that is increasingly being marginalized, IMO. But I know I am not expressing it well. Maybe someday I will pull my thoughts together on this subject.

[claudia603.livejournal.com]

I think I get what you mean. *nods* There is a LOT of dumbing down. You should hear the lunch time conversations I'm forced to endure about Dancing With the Stars just about every day...and these are people with whom I CAN have intelligent conversations

[febobe.livejournal.com]

I've had it with the trends and cliches crap to the point that I'm planning to self-pub on my book-length solo work, seriously. And I'm not ruling out discussing that for my fantasy collaboration either, which BTW fits some of the cliches mentioned and YES I KNOW THAT K THANX SHUT UP NOW AGENTY PEOPLE.

I think people should read and write whatever the hell they want. Seriously. Stuff like this drives me so crazy now that I don't usually read it. I don't mind learning from real writers for some of my more "literary" stuff and am thinking of going litmag subs on some of my short things like flashfic and poetry...but that's writers, not agents whining and bitching. Man.

Sorry for ranting. Just...can you tell this is a very sore spot with me? ;)

Hugs,
Febobe :)

[claudia603.livejournal.com]

Hmm...when I see a list of "cliches" like that, it makes me feel all the more rebellious that I want to do it. Rules. I hates them.

I 100 percent agree that people should read and write what they want. We only have so many days/hours on this earth and why waste it doing stuff you don't really love?

**hugs**

[singeaddams.livejournal.com]

I had angst about my preferred genre (paranormal hijinks but particularly old-school vampires) being a glut on the market until I remembered that they were considered a burden back when I was in high school and Anne Rice was sweeping the nation. Before (and after) Anne Rice there was Stephen King. Before King there was Sheridan LeFanu and Bram Stoker etc...etc...etc...

Delight in the paranormal WILL NEVER GO AWAY so I'm going to write what I want and not sweat what 'the industry' is bleating about.

[claudia603.livejournal.com]

You know? You are so very right. There are ebbs and flows with everything, and right now it's at this frenzy of paranormal, which I am really enjoying, but what's the next big thing? Who knows! I'm not going to worry about it and I'm just going to contemplate writing stuff *I* want to read, screw everything else.